10 January 2010

An exchange on a libertarian listserve

On September 12, 2004, a poster calling himself FondueUSA asked some questions of his fellow libertarians, here.

"What about the issue of cosmetic testing, endangered species, and hunting seasons? Should the goverment oversea those subjects? I would like to know what other libertarians think about what role should goverment should have with animals, or that there is no role at all. Thanks for your input."

That has the casualness in terms of spelling, etc., typical of the format. Fondue presumably meant whether the government should "oversee" various subjects concerning animals and nature, not whether it should do something "overseas" about them.

The discussion that followed is intriguing in its way, but I doubt that Fondue was entirely satisfied by any of it.

I suspect what Fondue was looking for was a distinction among animals. Which ones "count" morally and which ones don't? In my experience, most people are more shocked by dog fighting than by cock fighting, though both are criminal activities. Further, I suspect that if Michael Vick had onlybeen convicted of the latter, he would not have done time. Thus, there is some rough-and-ready distinction drawn along the "great chain of being" between cocks and dogs. Is that between birds and mammals?

I will take refuge in the wisdom of The Onion.

7 comments:

Henry said...

I do not read FoundueUSA as looking for distinctions among animals. He or she writes, "I have no problem with animal testing, eating yummy meat, and wearing animals for clothing. I also have not problem if chickens or cows are in horrible 'pain' when they die. But where does the line end[?] What about the issue of cosmetic testing, endangered species, and hunting seasons?"

The distinction he draws is incoherent and amoral. Those matters with which he has no problem are at least as bad, if not worse, than those he thinks might merit regulation. And the scare quotes around "pain" are vile; there is no question but that animals suffer pain, whether or not Fondue-for-brains has a problem with their suffering pain.

As for the underlying question of the appropriateness of government regulation, one should apply the same standards one applies when considering whether activities that harm humans should be regulated. If, for example, we would prohibit cosmetic testing on humans, then we should prohibit it on animals.

Christopher said...

The mention of "endangered species" on Fondue's list of things he thinks the govt might have a role in is intriguing, because it doesn't have anything to do with individual rights-bearing creatures at all.

An individual's rights can be perfectly respected while his/her species goes extinct, after all.

If govt (or the activity of voluntary organizations for that matter) ought to be concerned with endangered species, then presumably there are systemic reasons for it. Perhaps biodiversity is a feature of the environment that makes we humans safer -- that makes our extinction less likely. E.O. Wilson has made that pragmatic case for concern with preventing extinctions, I believe.

Perhaps the key to the cure for (human) cancer wil some day be found in the immune system of the bald eagle. If so, then it is not a good idea to let the bald eagle go extinct, is it?

Henry said...

Christopher,

The pragmatic case you make for preserving endangered species may have some validity; I have not studied the question. I am skeptical, though, and suspect that the concern for endangered species is primarily emotional -- extinction is forever and all that. I doubt that species that are approaching extinction or that exist only in zoos can be made to multiply in significant enough numbers to have a substantial impact on the ecosystem.

You are right that preserving endangered species doesn't have anything to do with individual rights-bearing creatures. That is why I, even though I am a long-term vegetarian and advocate of animal rights, have little concern for endangered species. Each individual chicken who is slaughtered for food concerns me as much as each individual member of an endangered species.

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